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Hi-I was told that this place could use some suggestions (particularly on the demihuman front) to try to keep the branches of these room trees even, so here I am. I'd just like to stress that what I'm suggesting in this and subsequent posts are merely suggestions, and that I have no right to assume they'll be used nor that I'll receive any compensation if they are. If people ignore me, berate me or tell me to get lost, that's just fine-but unless it's the guy who actually owns the forum saying so, I'll just keep going whenever a thought occurs.

So...

Hunter's Hut: works for either the Cutthroat Camp or those sneaky kobolds in the Warped Warrens, providing units that are fairly similar close-up but at least have a shortbow or crossbow to add a little damage when they're in the back.

Padfoot Patrol: goblins are known for cowardice, poison and swarm tactics. Only one of those can be put to good use in this game, from what I understand of it, so why not train the horrid little greenskins in the arts of the rogue? A padfoot is a good dodger and weaver, but the little club it wields is far from impressive; these guys are better at delaying and wearing down a group than they are at actually killing. On the bright side, they may pick up a little of one resource or another as they go... if it's deemed necessary to keep them useful.

Demonic Demolition: when the demons from the Portal got their metaphysical hands on the Grotto's denizens, was there any doubt they'd make walking bombs out of them? Don't expect them to survive many attacks, because these shambling near-corpses full of demonfire are in no shape to dodge and were literally made to split apart easily. But they will do plenty of damage if they manage to get up front and throw themselves at the enemy line. Even if they're destroyed before they attack, the splash should be good for something.

Speaking of demons, the Lemur's Lectern is a marvelous room for inspiring your fell forces to fight for their lives and demoralizing the good guys. These formless beings of dread can be pressed into more mobile service, lashing out psychically at the heroes and shrugging off devastating blows because of their high armor defense (or really just the fact you're swinging that sword through formless dread). Since Lemurs are technically wrathful spirits even if they do serve demons, this may be a better combination with crypt than stand-alone.

The 'Armless Armory is classic Seedy Cellar, full of rough blokes who do a very poor job of pretending that they aren't up to no good. The combination of good gear and bad training makes them a force to be reckoned with only against heroes with similarly poor training-they'll get taken apart by experienced adventurers. Of course, the same likely holds of any second tier unit without good backup.

According to the notes I took, that leaves one group that doesn't have a second tier room (well, two, with the second being the Cutthroat Camp or Warped Warrens, but I'd still call that pretty good for extemp work); the dark dwelling, which already provides dark elf warriors. Alright, how about a Stifling Stables, so named because the lizards housed within have toxic breath? They'll spew their poison from farther out and deliver a good solid bite when they're close-in. Depending on how you want your kobolds (some of them are essentially rat-like lizards, others are cunning and related to dragons), this could be a second tier for them instead-or a joint drow-kobold effort. If so, may I present an alternative for the dark elves?

The 'Sanctum' of Sacrifice: your denizens are taught that this is a place of healing, so badly wounded creatures will automatically enter if they pass through this room... where dark elf priests throw them onto blood altars, sacrifice them and pay you a portion of that creature's hiring costs as thanks for helping them keep their dark gods appeased. You can even hire them-the mere males in a power structure as matriarchal as the drows' are never taught the really nifty skills for smiting your opponents, but they do have healing and defense-buffing cantrips for when they're in the fourth and third positions, respectively. No wonder your denizens believe this 'Sanctum' is really about healing.

One final thought-what would be good for a Howling Hollow, which clearly needs to exist given the naming structure? A collaboration between the Lupine Lair and something else, of course, but... the demons for hellhounds? The goblins for grotesque wolfspiders? Maybe even the dark elves for (a generic version of) displacer beasts?

Tola wrote:Hi-I was told that this place could use some suggestions (particularly on the demihuman front) to try to keep the branches of these room trees even, so here I am. I'd just like to stress that what I'm suggesting in this and subsequent posts are merely suggestions, and that I have no right to assume they'll be used nor that I'll receive any compensation if they are. If people ignore me, berate me or tell me to get lost, that's just fine-but unless it's the guy who actually owns the forum saying so, I'll just keep going whenever a thought occurs.

I just want to say that while the current build's floor paths are unbalanced, that is due to only to development and time constraints, and not lack of ideas =). I have a huge list of potential rooms and minions to sift through, and while I am happy to mix and match those with some of the concepts that players have been suggesting on the forum, I don't want people to feel like they need to be giving me ideas, because I have plenty--I just haven't gotten to them yet.

You do have some great stuff in here, though, so I'll certainly take this post into consideration. Some of the first-tier floors that haven't received expansion yet do have announced minions, like the Kobolds' shaman and dragon acolytes--and I think hunters are another natural fit for their tree--, or the goblins' rogues (might borrow your "padfoot" name to make it less generic =P) and beastmasters. The floors can take a lot of time to draw, assemble, and animate, and I've been pretty focused on mechanics leading up to the alpha launch. I have art assets for I think five floors right now, so hopefully those will filter in over the next week or two, while I continue swatting bugs. The bulk of content should start showing up during the beta phase, after all of the mechanics are really in place.

I agree that "Howling Hollow" needs to happen, but it's a relatively generic name that we can probably just keep in our pocket until we have something appropriate that needs naming =). Lupine Lair + Portentous Portal combo yields the Kindled Kennels for Hellhounds--I might livestream the art for this floor later this week. Also, my Kobolds are on the naturally arcane/hunter/skirmisher draconic side, and in addition to hunters and shaman, they are intended to lead toward lizardfolk, troglogytes, wyverns, dragons, etc.--lots of lizardy things.

I'm sorry for not addressing all of your individual ideas, because they are generally quite good, and I appreciate them, but they are mostly for low-level structures, and I already have a bunch of those on the to-do list. I may come back to this thread down the road, though =). Thanks!

The demozombie idea is interesting - not sure it fits the game very well, but it could be almost as good as buying a bomb if you hire them at the right time. I like the stables idea, too. It gives a chance to poison enemies, which I haven't seen thus far, and might do for an upper tier floor.

Ah, my apologies. I was told about this forum by somebody who was annoyed that 'you hadn't thought of anything' for several of the choices they preferred in your demo..

Tola wrote:Ah, my apologies. I was told about this forum by somebody who was annoyed that 'you hadn't thought of anything' for several of the choices they preferred in your demo..

I'm a little annoyed with myself that I was unable to implement some of these floors before the alpha, but unfortunately, there were more important aspects of the game to work on. At this stage in development, core systems and mechanics--not content--are my primary concerns; the other build paths will definitely be getting some love, but I have to balance time spent on those things with time spent on admittedly less interesting things =/. As development progresses, more and more of my time will be devoted to content creation, though, so in the long run, I'm sure your friend will see something they like.

Jake wrote:I'm a little annoyed with myself that I was unable to implement some of these floors before the alpha, but unfortunately, there were more important aspects of the game to work on. At this stage in development, core systems and mechanics--not content--are my primary concerns;

Don't worry, Jake - I'm sure most of your backers know that alphas take time to develop. I'm glad that you're letting us poke at them instead of hiding them away until you have all the basics finished!

The guy who was telling me about ToT has been strangely (or not so strangely) silent since I explained his reasoning in wanting me to suggest things, but I have thought of something... if you're looking for 'lure' rooms that hit heroes of different priorities, you clearly need one for the few who are in it for Good instead of greed, a lust for power or simple fear of what could happen if they don't follow the orders of whoever sent them. Thus, the Crying Cradle: anybody with sense wouldn't really believe that that sound in this hellish dungeon is a crying baby, but on the other hand, who knows what dark powers may be able to use a newborn's life for? Diverting paladin types is all the room really does, unless you pay the lazy minions to arm the cradle-then getting close enough to see there's no actual baby releases noxious gases that are good for harming the whole group slightly. Maybe throw in an acid splash for the guy up front.

I think this is a cool idea; you're right that the righteous motive may be a bit tougher to exploit, but this would be a good way to do it. We could probably have some distressed damsel type stuff going on, too, though. Any suggestions for what might lead to such a floor? Figuring out who's setting the trap could help determine the style of the room and the type of trap that is set.

Third Anguis has designed a Nightmare Nursery floor as a part of his design reward that is very different, but is somewhat related in nature, being a nursery.

Given the nature of the trap it may be worth putting the Acrid Alchemist in as a prerequisite. Though I'm sure there are plenty of other ways you could get noxious gasses and fluids.