Ghosts and nightmares! Woo~ooo!

[Jake]

Anything that's Lovecraft-related is a must for me personally. I'd love to see something like "other dimensional monster" make random appearances depending on certain situations.

I think I'm putting most of the Lovecraftian stuff under the Dark Elf build tree, because that's my deep, dark, unspeakable horror tree. Even though Dark Elves and Lovecraft are not directly related, there are a lot of common themes between traditional denizens of the Underdark (mind flayers and aboleths are clear examples) and Lovecraftian creatures, so that's where I'm planning to go with them.

This thread isn't really the best place to get into that, though =).

As this thread is for a Tyrant reward, you can keep going, ThirdAnguis; you could add some champion versions of poltergeists and nightmares, throw out some related item ideas, or even suggest another floor related to these guys--we'll explore wherever you want to take this =).

[ThirdAnguis]

I'm thinking about traps and possession again. Maybe a higher tier trap floor. Spectral Sanctum? I dunno, I'm not feeling creatively alliterative tonight. Anyway, when a hero sets it off the floor kills them instantly and creates an encounter based on them. If you have the poltergeist room as your lower tier then the heroes fight a boss monster version of the guy who was just killed (it gains stats strong enough for it to go toe to toe with a full band of four heroes, but it fights solo and cannot be backed up by your minions). If you have the nightmare room then the trap floor creates four duplicates of the hero it caught. The monsters the trap spawns stay on that floor and resetting the trap kills the poltergeist boss/nightmare horde if it's still alive.

I don't see an overwhelming need for champion versions of the poltergeists or nightmares since the already can get champion stats with a lucky possession, but some kind of Curse of Nightmares/Haunting artifact which lets you target and instantly possess a specific unit could be a rare, high-level item.

[Vryl]

Just remember not to limit yourself, ThirdAnguis. You could make an item that does something strange, like a small ghost in a bottle - release it in the playing field to, say, convert growth to ruins... or send it onto a floor so it can distract heroes, maybe reduce the defense of all heroes in the room. Or assault ward defense specifically for a more major drain. So long as it's related, it doesn't have to be specifically about the poltergeist or nightmare!

[ThirdAnguis]

I'm not limiting myself, I'm trying to keep myself thematic. I appreciate what you're trying to do with that post but I'd prefer if you kept the comments with a "you're not trying hard enough" vibe to a minimum.

[Jake]

I'm thinking about traps and possession again. Maybe a higher tier trap floor. Spectral Sanctum? I dunno, I'm not feeling creatively alliterative tonight. Anyway, when a hero sets it off the floor kills them instantly and creates an encounter based on them. If you have the poltergeist room as your lower tier then the heroes fight a boss monster version of the guy who was just killed (it gains stats strong enough for it to go toe to toe with a full band of four heroes, but it fights solo and cannot be backed up by your minions). If you have the nightmare room then the trap floor creates four duplicates of the hero it caught. The monsters the trap spawns stay on that floor and resetting the trap kills the poltergeist boss/nightmare horde if it's still alive...

...some kind of Curse of Nightmares/Haunting artifact which lets you target and instantly possess a specific unit could be a rare, high-level item.

So in the 'geist version of this room, you're thinking some sort of amped-up ghost/wraith/wight version of the trap-slain hero will return as the floor's guardian? And the nightmare version is more of a Dark Link battle with four weaker (well, weaker than the ghost route) shadow-demon versions. For some reason, when I first read this, I read a lot more into it, like custom boss fight scenarios tailored to the hero type captured, but now that I re-read it, it does not seem nearly so involved--It all sounds quite do-able =). "Sanctum" is already in use for the Tyrant's throne room, though. Maybe something in the vein of "Spectral Struggle" where the noun is indicative of a trial or crucible, because this floor is focused on a specific type of fight against a former ally?

Would this haunting artifact require an active 'geist/'mare to possess, or does it automatically create a free minion on the targeted character? The former sounds like it would be more complicated to implement (how would the game determine which unit does the possessing), so I definitely lean toward the latter, but maybe you had something else in mind.

I'm not limiting myself, I'm trying to keep myself thematic. I appreciate what you're trying to do with that post but I'd prefer if you kept the comments with a "you're not trying hard enough" vibe to a minimum.

I expect this kind of accidental toe-stepping will come up periodically throughout these threads; I'm sure no one means to ruffle anyone's feathers, but because I'm encouraging everyone to offer input, we're bound to draw some comments that rub the designer the wrong way, and that's just going to be part of the process. No bad blood, I hope =).

[ThirdAnguis]

So in the 'geist version of this room, you're thinking some sort of amped-up ghost/wraith/wight version of the trap-slain hero will return as the floor's guardian? And the nightmare version is more of a Dark Link battle with four weaker (well, weaker than the ghost route) shadow-demon versions.

Bingo!

Maybe something in the vein of "Spectral Struggle" where the noun is indicative of a trial or crucible, because this floor is focused on a specific type of fight against a former ally?

I guess that works? I dunno. I like the idea of making the name more obvious that it's some sort of challenge or arena fight for heroes walking in, but I don't know if I like that combination of words.

Tangentially related, I love the combination "Dismal Dreamscape" but can't think of a good use for it.

Would this haunting artifact require an active 'geist/'mare to possess, or does it automatically create a free minion on the targeted character? The former sounds like it would be more complicated to implement (how would the game determine which unit does the possessing), so I definitely lean toward the latter, but maybe you had something else in mind.

I was thinking the latter. When you use the artifact you get a free unit, but it's one use only so you've gotta make it count! You could use it to steal over a powerful champion plowing through your dungeon, or perhaps to stop the lone pixie who somehow snuck through all of your defenses and is about to one-shot your tyrant.

[Jake]

I guess that works? I dunno. I like the idea of making the name more obvious that it's some sort of challenge or arena fight for heroes walking in, but I don't know if I like that combination of words.

Yeah, I didn't love it, either; I just wanted to suggest looking in that direction: Ethereal Encounter, Shadowy Showdown, Abominable or Accursed Ambush, Cruel Confrontation, Phantasmal Face-off? Maybe something in there will knock additional ideas loose =).

Appearance-wise, what did you have in mind? I'm kind of picturing this trap in the classic "mirror" style, where the room just has a big standing mirror in it, and it traps the character's soul (or some flavor text), which then manifests as one of the two encounters you've described, depending on the route the player has gone to reach this floor. It could be in a room full of mirrors, or one filled with other junk, covered in sheets, or even just a big, empty, colonnaded chamber with a lone mirror in the middle. That's just what the concept as conjured for me, anyway--we can go with a crystal, an orb, a book, or an entirely different mechanic, of course =). I'm not just looking to figure out the way the trap is set up, but how you'd like the room as a whole to appear.

Any ideas as to what you'd like the item to look like? I hate to say it, but Vryl's suggestion of some sort of spirit in a bottle might actually make sense here =P. We would also have to decide what resource (or resources) the item must be matched with: arcana?

[ThirdAnguis]

Appearance-wise, what did you have in mind? I'm kind of picturing this trap in the classic "mirror" style, where the room just has a big standing mirror in it, and it traps the character's soul (or some flavor text), which then manifests as one of the two encounters you've described, depending on the route the player has gone to reach this floor. It could be in a room full of mirrors, or one filled with other junk, covered in sheets, or even just a big, empty, colonnaded chamber with a lone mirror in the middle.

Ooh, actually, I really like that idea with the mirror and dusty, half-covered junk, with cobwebs in the corners and between background pieces. The previous room and its two incarnations are very much giving off a "haunted house" vibe, a room that looks decrepit and unused save for the one large, cursed object in the middle that steals your soul would fit very well. It'd say that the mirror should probably take up about the third middle of the room with some ornate framework around the edge. When the trap is set then the frame pulses or glows so it's immediately recognizable that something magical is happening there. When a hero activates the trap the mirror flashes white and pulls them into it, where they fade away to nothing as the boss monster(s) fade into the room, possibly with some sort of "flow of energy" animation from the mirror to the summoning boss.

Any ideas as to what you'd like the item to look like? I hate to say it, but Vryl's suggestion of some sort of spirit in a bottle might actually make sense here =P. We would also have to decide what resource (or resources) the item must be matched with: arcana?

Don't be like that! Vryl's suggestions were fine, it was just the tone of voice that bothered me. A bottle works just fine for it, and arcana is probably the best match since straight up mystical shenanigans. For building the initial rooms I'm thinking a split between Arcana and Ruins. The trap room (Malicious Mirror, maybe? Flavorful to the room and hinting about what it does to heroes) uses Arcana, Ruins and a bit of Loot.

[Jake]

I wasn't really sold on the "Haunted Hall" name in the beginning, mostly because I'm already using the word "hallway" elsewhere (although I am not tremendously committed to that name either), but also because the Nightmare Nursery sounds like it has more character; I think it would be nice to theme it after another room of the house (since we have a children's room--nursery--, and an attic with a mirror). I've started thinking it would be cool to have a full collection of "Haunted House" rooms that give you some sort of bonus when you build a set of them. Obviously, you cannot build all of them, because those two are alternative floors, but if we offered, say five or six, and only two of them were alternatives, then players could still have a four or five room collection to build--a significant objective.

Would that interest you? I would be fine with just defining the Haunted Hall a little more descriptively, but I thought I would put this possibility out there. The floors wouldn't all require new minion ideas; some could be trap-based or maybe even shop-based; whatever you imagine =).

[ThirdAnguis]

I wasn't really sold on the "Haunted Hall" name in the beginning, mostly because I'm already using the world "hallway" elsewhere (although I am not tremendously committed to that name either), but also because the Nightmare Nursery sounds like it has more character.

I'm also not too attached to Hall. It's kind of a weak word, I was just at a loss for another word for "room with a bunch of generic stuff poltergeists can grab in it".

I've started thinking it would be cool to have a full collection of "Haunted House" rooms that give you some sort of bonus when you build a set of them. Obviously, you cannot build all of them, because those two are alternative floors, but if we offered, say five or six, and only two of them were alternatives, then players could still have a four or five room collection to build--a significant objective.

That sounds really cool! I like the idea of getting bonuses for completing "sets" of rooms. Would it actively check that you have all the rooms, or would there be a "capstone" room with a nice bonus that has the other rooms as a prerequisite? We've already got two rooms in the theme (counting the Hall/Nursery as one because they're mutually exclusive). What else might you find in a haunted house? Perhaps a ghost-filled ballroom as a time wasting floor -- the heroes get caught up dancing there, which slows them down. Attics or basements are always ripe for potent hauntings, too. Maybe a library that gives a bonus of some variety to the Heretic/Dark Elf tree. I dunno, I'm just pitching ideas as they come to mind, that last one might be better off as a standalone room in not-run-down condition.